Sep 16 13:32:33 109 PA - War and Boobs

From Chronicles

Sep 16 13:32:33 109 PA.

LADY LUCK

The early afternoon has the place quiet for a change. Just the spider-like bartender working for Fizz is cleaning up to get ready for the coming night. The short little owner is sitting at the end of the bar going over some ledgers and paperwork. Anyone entering at this hour will be met by the light borg that stands guard at the door, "We are closed, please come back at 4 pm."

Gabriel looks to the 'Borg, and looks inside and sees that Fizzlesnoot is busy. He turns back to the 'Borg and smiles up at him, "If a guy named Tek ever comes around, don't try to ask for his weapons, he'll shit himself and you'll have to throw him out. Believe me, I've seen it. Just let the owner know I dropped by, okay?" He keeps business outside of the club, no reason to bother during non-business hours.

The borg replies with a grin in his tone, "Then it will make the night that much more enjoyable. Who should I say came by and what purpose?"

"Gabriel. Just stopping by. If he comes free, see if he can't catch me in town. Some of us aren't built like you are for these parts," he chuckles out, looking at the partial 'Borg's hydraulic-pneumatic muscles. "Only a personal call. He knows how to get me." That said, he tosses off a non-salute and starts to make his way back to civilization.

The borg holds the man up, "If you're a friend I will see if he's busy or not. He's just doing paperwork I think."

Gabriel stops in mid-step, shrugs, and waits to see if the 'Borg gives him any results.

The borg steps inside and calls over to Fizz, "Hey Fizz!, you know a Gabriel? An old guy out here came to see ya." Social graces not being the borg's strong point. The little d-bee gives a wave, "Yeah, let him in Rocky." and with a wave from Rocky as he holds open the door, "He's free, come on in guy."

Gabriel waits for the 'Borg to sweep an arm in, and walks up to Fizzlesnoot's side. "Rocky? Is the night-shift guard 'Bullwinkle?' How's you doin', Fizz? Sorry to catch you closed, I'm not used to calling daylight closed hours."

Fizzlesnoot offers a friendly smile and slightly confused tilt of his head with his reference, but it's something he is starting to get used to so just a subtle shake of his head as he motions to the bar stool next to him, "What brings you by? Out driving around to test the armor of that thing?" a bit of a chuckle to go along with. "Want anything? Water, whiskey, both?"

"Water, please. If the pipes are clean," Gabriel jokes. Only partly. You never know what you'll find in plumbing at places like this. "What brings me by, though? Really just because I didn't want to call you away. Really caught up a learning bug after those lessons with the car - thanks for those, by the way - just roaming around trying to fill in the gaps in my memory. How's business?" His eyes look around the largely empty club. "Heard it's been a bit, ah... 'non-humany' around here?"

Fizzlesnoot calls over to the bartender setting up, "Could you grab a water please?" then turns back to Gabriel, "Yeah, a market no one seems to cater to, so being non-humany myself, I figured why not take their tastes into account a bit more. It's been working out. So what are you looking to learn about now?"

Gabriel shrugs, settling himself and his armor a little more comfortably. "Nothing specific, Just sponging. It's not like people hang out a list of academics unless they're at a proper institution of some kind. Only been chatting people up trying to wring them out to see if there's anything interesting," he ends with a light chuckle.

Fizzlesnoot give a slight shrug, "Not sure what you'd find interesting? I could teach ya how to darn your socks and crochet some mittens if your looking for something to kill the time." Chuckling, "You much of a card player? Games are always fun."

"Used to be an ace card player, yeah. Made myself a rich man that way, but I think those times are over," Gabriel says in a tone that might suggest he's actually telling the truth. "Like I said, just kind of sponging, seeing what's around. Don't think I have much need for fixing socks or mittens. I can afford to replace 'em when they go bad."

Fizzlesnoot gives a grin at him being an ace player, "Well maybe me an you should sit down sometime for a friendly game, just to kill time. So what else is new with you? Anything interesting? Hows your business going? I hear merc work pays pretty good."

"Pfft," Gabriel replies. "First, it's not mercenary work. Second, it pays enough to keep me in a nice condominium, but otherwise my head is barely above water when it comes to buying things that I need." He waggles an amused finger as he removes the gauntlet and waits for the water. "Being the good guy makes a man's soul rich, but often his wallet poor."

Fizzlesnoot gives a knowing nod, "I understand the financing part of things. I'm just floating myself for the most part, and I don't even have an apartment or anything. You must be doing good enough for both." The water is finally set in front of the old man, the glass and liquid appear clean. Gabriel eyes the big-eyed D-Bee. "I suspect you make twice the money I do, or more, my friend. Titty bars and gambling pays. Companies who turn down jobs on moral grounds? They're the ones you want for a job, but not the ones that rake in the cash." He sighs and takes a pull on the water - carefully, seeking out pollutants before going full-bore on it. "So, without sponging off darning socks, maybe I can sponge off some traveling information and advice?" He sounds hopeful.

Fizzlesnoot finds the last bit a tad interesting, "What kind of traveling tips and advice?"

"Well, whaddya know about that place they call the New West? Or the Frontier, I guess some people call it." Gabriel waves an arm in that direction while keeping his right hand steady with the glass of water. "Y'know, that direction."

Fizzlesnoot gives a shake of his head and a shrug, "Couldn't tell ya really, I've never been out that way. I stopped here before getting any farther west. You planning a trip out that way or something?"

"No, just curious. Been learning about the continent, and most of that seems like a big open place that nobody claims." Gabriel shrugs. "It's nothing. Trying to catch up with the locals. You have no idea what it's like to have gone from knowing just about everything about world cultures and geography to knowing just about nothing on that same subject." He sighs and shakes his head.

Fizzlesnoot nods sympathetically, "Must be rough being the new kid on such a big block. A lot of the wilderness is just that, wilderness. Wide open and desolate, you can go days without seeing a soul, but then other times you meet the souls out there, and usually it doesn't turn out good. All kinds of nasties out there. I'm sure you've seen plenty since being here already."

"Surprisingly few, I think," Gabriel replies. "Federation of Magic knights, vampires, Coalition troops dug in... that kind of thing," he adds. "Problem is these days you can't count on the IHDS and gas stations along the way. I'm honestly not sure how people even travel large distance anymore."

Fizzlesnoot shrugs, "Me either, most I know stay in one place until forced to move, like me for instance. I don't plan to move again unless this place falls like Tolkeen did, hopefully that won't happen though. You can find some small towns and villages along the way sometimes, but nothing too special."

Gabriel nods again. "Yeah. So only the militaries and the bad guys who scoop up the money can pay for long-distance travel. It's all about infrastructure!" He allows himself to pound the counter with the base of the glass. "Infrastructure and logistics is the cornerstone of any civilization, and any war. You don't have one, you don't have the other one. So until someone else in North America, or wherevere-the-hell else decides to suck it up, grow a pair and do something about it, Earth will be one giant ball of shit. To hell with people calling it the jewel of the megaverse." He smirks, "I'm not even sure that's a real word."

Fizzlesnoot gives another shrug, "I don't know about it being jewel of the megaverse or anything, but it is quite scenic when the bad guys keep away. It could be a nice place again someday, but not with all the fighting that goes on and the only wars I know about are human driven. Why is that? Were humans that warlike back in your day? You seem sensible in you ideals, unlike those I've met living under the Coalition."

"Of course we fought. *Everybody* fights among themselves. Every last animal. Every last plant. It's the way of things, unfortunately," Gabriel says sadly. "But it doesn't mean that there can't be those of us who believe in a higher cause of peace and rights. However, are the vampire wars human driven? The ones out of Atlantis? I understand that in Europe they've got gargoyles shooting each other, and I don't mean to be too pointed about this... but from everything that I have read on the subject, Tolkeen and its denizens were just about as much at fault as the Coalition was when it came to war. *Everybody* fights. It's nature, every organism wants to expand, wants to make its species better. Doesn't make war right, but it does mean that there isn't a single living thing that doesn't do it. Because the ones that don't fight, don't succeed, and they disappear."

Fizzlesnoot gives a shake of his head, "I don't know about those, I only know about the one that completely destroyed my home and probably my family and friends. And from what I know about vampires, weren’t they human once? I'm not trying to get into a debate, just trying to understand the point of it better. Dealing with my feelings of loss without losing it completely."

"Humans - and every intelligent creature - usually ends up fighting for some kind of ideal. When war comes, sides square off as supporters or detractors of the ideal. Then the shooting starts. That's it, period. Ideals can be anything. A better race. Money. Land. Religion. Line of succession." Gabriel stops for some water. "Doesn't matter, it's all the same. Just remember this! You cannot give in to an ideal. Unfortunately, there are only two ways to confront it. First and obvious, start shooting. Second and less-obvious, have such a superior presence that an attack by the person with the 'wrong' ideal -" he supplies air quotes "- would be foolish to attack. Doesn't always work, because people with ideals have them because they believe them. Just whatever you do, if someone is looking to make war and press their ideal, *don't* pull a Chamberlain."

Fizzlesnoot wrinkles his brow, well what should be a brow, "What's a chamberlain?" confused and curious at the same time. "And I know you're right, that every species fights, it's a big difference between fighting for survival and fighting for extermination."

Gabriel waves a hand and pats the counter. "That's why I brought intelligence into this. First organisms fight for survival. Then when they gain intellect, they develop ideals. Can be as simple as 'let's protect our fields from the other tribe' to 'people with yellow hair and blue eyes are those who are meant to inherit the world' to 'people need money from what they earn rather than people all getting the same amount of money,' and so on." The water is finished off. "Still, when you get right down to it, fighting for extermination is simply fighting for survival, but from the other point of view. The guys fighting for survival will always say they're fighting for survival. The ones defending against it will say they're fighting against being exterminated. It's only a matter of perspective, one that's easy to slip between depending on where you are and the time of day. Literally. As for Chamberlain. When I was twenty, it was 1938. I had a wife and three kids - my first family. To make things simple, there was one man who wanted to expand his empire, and wanted a piece of land that another country already owned. So a third country came in, represented by a man named Neville Chamberlain, and negotiated to give the piece of the other country's land to the first country. He went home and declared that he had accomplished 'peace in our time.' About a year later, the first country started a war that spanned the world. Lesson being, you cannot give in to bullies. You have to hit them back, because if you give them anything, they will take it, and then they will ask for more. Naturally, I have different views of how to accomplish this in my own life, but the insight is the same." The old soldier raises a brow. "Why, Fizz? You thinking about putting up posters for the ankh guys?"

Fizzlesnoot replies, "Well no posters, but I do let them pass out fliers if they want. Posters are tacky and would ruin the ambiance of the place. I can agree on the bully thing, but hitting back doesn't have to be a total destruction thing. I'm not a soldier so there is a lot militarily I don't really understand. Maybe that is the only way to send a bully packing, I like to think there are less violent ways of doing it."

"A determined bully can be sent packing with a punch in the nose. That's playground stuff, Fizz. What every father teaches his kids - boys and girls both. But when it comes to countries or religions, it's not as easy," Gabriel continues, doing his best to explain. "Strong ideologies do not have gray areas. The only peaceable outcome that Tolkeen could have found in the war would have been absolute and complete surrender, allowing the Coalition to come in and absorb the city and its people as part of their own, subject entirely to their laws and beliefs. But clearly, they weren't going to do that, so they fought - and don't fool yourself, if they had been able to exterminate the Coalition, they would have. You can prove this by looking at the way they annihilated - or at least appeared to annihilate - the first siege set against them. There is no such thing as a 'good' war. There are both 'good' and 'bad' victories. But there is *nothing* called a good defeat by the defeated. Now, strategy is different. But this is the whole concept of conflict, not strategy."

Fizzlesnoot shakes his head, "There is nothing that can be said to make me think Tolkeen fighters did anything wrong in defending their home. We didn't attack them, they came and laid siege on us. Point of view or not, you would have to be completely evil to think Tolkeen were the bad guys there, in any way shape or form. People defending their home is nothing less than heroism. You can twist the morality all you like, the fact of the matter is, the Coalition invaded our home. All that died in that attempt deserved any horror they faced. They came looking for it. And this has nothing to do with human, non-human sentiment. Most of Tolkeen was human, this is just about being plain evil." He does seem to be getting agitated on the topic.

Gabriel continues on the subject that was raised. "I didn't say human or non-human, and I didn't mention any horrors raised. Interesting you should? All I said is that when Tolkeen entered the fight in an official manner, they didn't fight any differently, or for any less result. Let me ask you this, Fizzlesnoot." He spins on the stool slightly so that he can see the D-Bee. "Would Tolkeen's armies have stopped at their southern border with the Coalition, if they'd pushed the armies out there rather than rolling over them and smashing them? Would Tolkeen have been content to know that they would need to set up a patrol hundreds of miles long to keep out an enemy that would simply be growing back in strength while they waited?" He allows a brief pause. "Or would they have rolled all the way through Coalition territory, leveled Chi-Town and strung Prosek up on a string, if they couldn't get him to a court, first?"

Fizzlesnoot replies, "I think they would've stopped, I like to believe that not all kingdoms are bent on conquest. They didn't pursue them when they broke the initial siege. Which gave the Coalition time to come back in force to exterminate the whole city. You're really defending the position of the Coalition? Aren't ya? I really hope your just playing Devil's advocate."

"I'm not defending anyone. I'm saying that Tolkeen's generals would have put together a new army and rolled after the fleeing Coalition as soon as they could, because exactly what I said would happen, happened. The enemy came back, reinforced, hit them again and won," Gabriel observes. "None of that's in dispute, is it? I didn't say that Tolkeen was bent on conquest either. I said that they would have of necessity waged a war of conquest or even extermination, because even unconditional surrenders rarely work out well." His finger waggles again. "The example that I told you, where that first country attacked the other countries? A whole bunch of countries that were otherwise happy to go on as they were? Those countries got the shit kicked out of them, they regrouped, turned around, and marched back over the fucker's own dining room. There wasn't anything left except for captives - ironically, many of them who had wanted to be captured. Same thing happened at the same time on the other side of the world. If you're the one that gets attacked, you need to hit back to obliterate. If you don't, you will ultimately fail, and many more lives will be lost in the process."

Fizzlesnoot gives a shake of his head with a sigh, "Senseless, I disagree with the lot of it. I can't debate military strategy, I have never been in any form of military. But I can't believe your option is the only one possible. If that is the case, then there is no reason to hope for anything better. Nothing will ever get better in your scenario."

Gabriel sighs. "The only surrender that I know of in the history of my world that *ever* worked out was in my own country's civil war. Brother fought brother over economics and ideology. One side won, but rather than destroying the other side, they reached an unconditional surrender. Sounds good, right? War ends?" He nods. "It was. country became whole again. But - it was because the winning side that received the surrender enveloped the defeated side culturally and economically after the actually shooting war was over. In the end, one can ultimately look at it as another victory by extermination. That's just how it works. No one wins by agreement."

Fizzlesnoot nods, "Seems that way. A shame though, cause there are so many people in the world that are against it in so many ways. Well I hate to end this right now, but I do have an opening to get ready for. Will you be sticking around?"

Gabriel shakes his head negatively and is already hopping off the stool. "Nope! Sorry, Fizz, but I don't want to give the Family any credit for having one more patron here. I'll catch you around town." He's soon out the door, headed for civilization.